Low Band GE Rangr

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n4apg
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:12 pm

Low Band GE Rangr

Post by n4apg »

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the group - seems like an excellent place to learn more about GE products.

I am trying to put a 139B Rangr on six meters and am looking for a manual and the programming cable for use with the GE programming interface box.

Anybody know where I can find these items or have any suggestions about moving a Rangr to six meters?

Thanks!
Last edited by n4apg on Fri Feb 07, 2003 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
n4apg
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:12 pm

By the way...

Post by n4apg »

Is there any difference between the 139B Rangrs and the 162s and so on? Which is better for out-of-band use in the 52-54 MHz range?

Thanks!
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n_zero_ndp
Posts: 389
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Location: Where P25 Trunking is KING

Re: By the way...

Post by n_zero_ndp »

n4apg wrote:Is there any difference between the 139B Rangrs and the 162s and so on? Which is better for out-of-band use in the 52-54 MHz range?

Thanks!
I have a few of the following working on SIX METERS:
19C852050P3 Rangr AXA9HHTR-138-B (the 60 watt version)

I have heard that the 162B's (so-called RANGR 89's) are more widebanded. I have no experience with the 162B's at all, but I can tell you my 138B's don't stretch all the way up to 54 megs (VCO wont lock all the way up there).

Please see the following Adobe document for useful info on the RANGR at SIX METERS:
http://www.packetradio.com/pdfzips/rngr6mod.pdf

As far as a programming cable... I use the real deal (TQ3331).
See this link:
http://www.hallelectronics.com/getech/tq3331.gif
You can make your own cable. Use an old control cable by following the diagram shown on the aforementioned website.

Another way to program the RANGR is to program the S825 control head & use it to download into the radio.

Have anymore questions? I'll try to help.

Ken in KCMO
n4apg
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Thanks, Ken!

Post by n4apg »

I have the pdf file you cite and it guided my buying decision significantly as I selected the 139B over the later versions because of the article. I plugged in a prom I think (I cannot tell for sure since I have neither programming cable nor prom reader yet) is tuned to 6 meters from a Delta-S. The Rangr would not lock on tx at all (VCO voltage was about 8.3 volts) and only marginally lower on receive. I found a channel on receive where the VCO would at least sort of lock, and I finally got audio and squelch control through the control head.

If this is actually a six meter prom then I am left with changing the VCO tuning range probably by changing chip capacitors on the board - which I've done before on Delta-Ss, but was hoping not to have to do with the Rangr. Or I could maybe swap with the vendor for a 162B Rangr 89.

Any thoughts? I need suggestions and help...

I also would like to find a Rangr manual and program cable. It's one of those things you don't need all the time, but when you need one - you need it badly. I guess I could build it, but that will be a last resort.

Do you need to use an MPA/MPD programming cable? I have a new factory one, maybe we could temporarily exchange programming cables to complete programming work.
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n_zero_ndp
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Post by n_zero_ndp »

I have had variable results. Seems some 138/139 Rangrs just tune up better than others. One of mine does lock up higher in freq than the other, but keep in mind I made no chip cap mods at all.

I have little experience with Deltas (only on VHF hi-band), but have heard they go into 6 meters without any trouble at all. Most folks won't even try to put a RANGR on 6 because the DELTAs were easier to set up.

I am looking into the following stand-alone EEPROM programmer info:

http://www.rtzaudio.com/kg4lne/psx200.htm - for kit building types -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3005988674
- for us lazy, off the shelf types -

This would eliminate the need for any programming cables as you only need to remove the EEPROM to program it. I don't have the need to trade cables for an MPA, already have one. I would be happy to program your EEPROM if you like. Please e-mail me direct if you are interested in mailing me your EEPROM. radiogeek@email.com
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kd6kml
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:48 pm
Location: Napa, CA

Smoking section, please

Post by kd6kml »

What about the mods to the low pass filter to prevent smoking the PA? I have been playing aound with both 163 and 139 radios. Both will work to around 53.5 for tx and rx. Fine for my applications. The 163's seem to need a mod on the TX VCO, the removal of a chip cap to get good lock from 39 to 54 or so.

I have been playing with the coils in the filter to prevent smoke. The one coil will get hot and burn up the board under it. This has happened to 2 radios I know of, one of which was bought brand new in 1989 for 1800 bucks. It burned up in less that a week. Depending on the PA revision, some will start to make high heat very quickly.

That PDF with mods probably works OK for those packet radio guys on the lower part of the band. Uf in the FM section, it will make smoke.

I am new here, and found this stuff out the hard way. There does not seem to be too much info out there for RANGR on 6 meters. I think guys tried it years ago, ruined radios, and the story spread that they don't go to 6 meters. I have been getting 100 watt radios for 50 bucks, so I would like to see them play well.

Josh
Always watch the fat man,
For he has found the easy way.
mike m
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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:00 pm

Post by mike m »

http://www.engr.mun.ca/~gmarsh/phoenix/

to make your own programmer for the X2212 DRAM go to the web site above. You still need some way of generating the binary file for the prom to use the MARSH style programmer and I think if you do a search for NILES GE software you should be able to find the NILES program, RPG, which generates binary images for most older GE radios that use the 2212 style eeprom.

Other wise you need to program a S825 head with the GE rib box and software and download to the RANGR.

I use the S990/S950 heads loaded with the frequency agile hamsoftware and I have found that the 60watt Rangr 050/ 138-B radios go to 6 meters just fine. I have mine now working from 31 to 54 MHz and am still working on stretching the VCO down to 29 MHz. The PA and RX are already wide enough where any mods if required are easy.


Mike
WB8VLC/7
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kd6kml
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Hey Mike, next time...

Post by kd6kml »

Maybe next time the band opens, I'll have my RANGR on. Any repeaters down your way I should program in for whe nthe DX is in?

I only know 2 fellows tha ran RANGRs (100 watt) and they both burned up in a matter of days. Maybe the low power ones still generate the heat, but not enoug to smoke the board. In the low pass filter housing, the coil closest to the TR relay is the one that get real hot.

So far, I think the radio is great, and the newer ones do not need VCO mods, just maybe some tuning. I still think I'll use Deltas for remote base radios, especially on sites where the Highway Patrol has it's transmitters on 42MC.

Josh KD6KML
Always watch the fat man,
For he has found the easy way.
mike m
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Post by mike m »

Josh,

Yes lots of rptrs here on high mtns. Unfortunately the only one in southern AZ near Tucson(53.72/52.72 136.5 hz pl) burned down in the Aspen fire 3 weeks ago but there are still 5 on the air 53.01/52.01 136.5 hz pl and 53.21/52.21 down in Phoenix, they don't have a lot of users so the next 2 are your best choice and my favorites. The best of all 52.56/52.06 100 hz pl here in Prescott on an 8000 foot hill. 53.41/52.41 110.9 hz pl on an 10500 foot hill near the New Mexico Border in eastern Az. And 53.04/52.04 no pl needed here located in north Prescott at 5000 foot elevation.

I'm lucky I haven't burnt up a RANGR yet. I found the 60 watters were tuned much wider than the 110 watt radios, my 10 meter 110 watt Rangr will only stretch 27 to 35 Mhz while the unmodified 60 watt high split went 32 to 54 and with a bit of persuasion down to 31 now on the low end, I'm still working on this one but I hope to have it doing 29.2 to 54. On the receive end it does .185 uV for 12 dB sinad so even the RX is good across the entire 31 to 54 range.

Oh almost forgot, I made a small change to the power control loop in my 60 watt 050 RANGR and now have it at 95 watts and so far for the last 3 weeks of operation I have not had any problems such as excessive heating or seen any power sag problems and I have it running in a 90 to 105 degree ambient environment. I was bored and wanted to see if it was easy to mod the 60 watter to do 100 watts.


Mike
jim202
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Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:47 am
Location: New Orleans region

Post by jim202 »

I have been using the Ranger and the Delta on 6 for about 15 or 18 years now. Yup the older Ranger PA output filter doesn't like the 6 meter band very much.

My solution is not the best, but what I did was just bypass the whole filter. Ran the output direct to the antenna connector. Turn down the output to about 60 watts. I have a bad habbit of talking too much and the heat sink gets real hot if you don't turn the power back. Even at the 60 watt level it still gets hot.

If you like replacing the PA all the time, keep running a 60 watt PA at the 90 watt level. The heat sink isn't enough on the 110 watt radio and you expect the 60 watt heat sink to work.

I have always used an S-950 or S-990 scan head on the Ranger and Delta radios. So I just program the head and then let it download to the radio.

The person who kind of indicated that they were taking a Delta EEPROM and using it it a Ranger, it won't work. Think I read what you said correctly.

As far as the Delta working on 6 meters, yup, works great. Not very hard to tune them up. Just remember that your frequency spread is limited. Don't expect it to work good on 52.525 and have the same RX sensitivity at 53.73 or some place up there. The manual says 0.75 Mhz. band with no center tuning. Even with split tuning, that's about the limit for good sensitivity. The mobile antenna is more of a problem with band spread.

I don't get on this board every day, but if you need info and help on the older Delta and Ranger LB radios, just ask away and I will get back here sometime.

Jim
jim202
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Re: Hey Mike, next time...

Post by jim202 »

Forgot to add one more comment about the LB Ranger radio receiver. It is very prone to intermod and images. I would be able to hear wireless phone while driving down the streets years ago.

Could hear some of the local PD and fire coms on the ham frequencies at times. If you don't mind hearing strange things once in a while, then the Ranger is a good radio.

Think I had mine stretched from the high end of 6 to some place in the low 42 Mhz. or so. Think I got one to go to between 39.420 and the 6 meter repeaters.

With the Ranger and a S-950 or S-990 head, you could get 4 modes of 16 channels each. The Delta S would give you 8 modes of 16 channels with these heads. The S-825 would be a little more flexible. You could program the head to allow you to have mutiple TX CG tones (CTCSS) with the propper head version.

Hope this clears up some of the questions that may have been asked here.

Jim
mike m
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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:00 pm

Post by mike m »

My 110 watt rangr(29.7 to 35 MHz) and my converted 95 watter, was a 60 watter, 32 to 54 Mhz rangr use the exact same chassis and same size heatsink so there is no problem converting the 60 watt rangr to a 95 watt radio, the 2 push pull transistors used in the 60 watt final are each rated at over 60 watts (each device at VHf low freqs) and the PA is still loafing at 90 watts, even with LPF losses each device is only running at 50 watts maximum. These are both rangr 050 radio chassis by the way.

As for Rx sensitivity both radios consistantly are under .2 uv for 12 db sinad across their entire receive ranges, the 050 version of the low band rangr is certainly a wideband radio.

Using the stock non hamflashed S990/S950 head I have 8 modes of 16 channels and using the hamflash head I still have either 8 modes of 16 channels or 4 modes of 32 channels with the dual 2212 setup. So for either hamflash or stock, I still have 128 channels.

The only time that I had the power cutback on either of my radios, 110 watt or modified 95 watter, was when I had it running at 70 C ambient in my Tenney environmental chamber one weekend after work, and this was after 10 minutes of repeating 1 minute tx on and 4 minutes of tx off cycles. Below 65 C I never had the power cutback and never had any power sag problems with either radio.

Forgot to add that my 110 watt radio has been in operation for 2 years and I use it in my 4-runner and as a backup base and in the summer AZ heat, it gets up to 145 F when I get into the vehicle and start it up, it has never failed yet, the 60 watt 6 meter radio was running for the same amount of time at the 60 watt level and just recently out of boredom I converted it to the 95 watter and it has been running for almost a month now without any power problems. I use both radios daily BTW.

As for the IMD problems, this was common for some of the earlier low band rangrs that had the noise blanker installed , there was a fix to the 2 fets in the IF where the blanker pulses were applied on the main RX board that fixed the IMD problem along with careful adjustment of the IF trap on the noise blanker PWB.


So far I've never had a IMD problem with any of my low band rangrs and I know of several hundred still being used by the CHP in cars and in cycles without any problems. When the CHP goes to 800 MHz in a few years these rangrs will hopefully be coming on the used market and not to the recycling dump.


Mike
jim202
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Post by jim202 »

Mike,

You have my interest up on the fet mods in respect to the IMD. Just what did the mods change. Have a couple of these units still in service that it would be nice to clean up.

You also made comment about the S-950 heads with a ham flash. When I was still playing two way service on these radios, the term flash hadn't been invented yet. I still use the suitcase to program my heads. Just made a program change this past weekend on one of the heads. Is there a better way these days?

I kind of am getting that sinking feeling about what would happen if and when my suitcase goes belly up. I do have the GE RIB, but haven't ever used it for anything except an S-825 head many years ago.

Jim
mike m
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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:00 pm

Post by mike m »

I can't get into the LBI section to look for the specific noise blanker LBI document number but I think it was pretty radical. Something like removing the blanking fet switches on the main receiver board, bad side is that you loose the noise blanker function and thats why I don't have it in any of my mobiles. I don't think it's a good fix for mobile use but more of a bandage fix.


Mike
kc4sbj
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Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:19 pm
Location: near Dallas

6 meter mod

Post by kc4sbj »

i know a lot people want take the 39-42 mhz ect... to the 6meter ham band here it is :

That 300pf cap on the large transformer gets very hot unless you change it
to a 200pf. on those 051 models 163 is it? And I remove at least 1/2 turn
from the two potted VCO coils to get operation all the way up to 54.00


if you want to know more just email gary peterson at: nz5v@arrl.net
and as gary he has done many of these radio 6meters to 440 I am sure he will help you
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