M/A Comm Opensky

Forum dedicated to the Harris PSPC Product group items such as Orion, M7100/M7200/M7300, P7100/P7200/P7300, Harris Unity XG-100, GE Orion, GE Master Repeaters, EDACS Trunking, Pro Voice, PC Configure, RPM, and other topics relating to Harris, MA-Comm, Ericsson, GE products.
radio259
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:11 pm
Location: Pittsburgh Pa

Post by radio259 »

:beer: Tony: The info I received was from a former fireman from New Salem. I usually just listen to other talkon these matters, then decide for my self. I now under stand he was off by a few bucks in his conversation.

I did talk to a fire chief from Westmoreland> I beleive he was from around BelVernon. He stated to me the chiefs have a concern for the system coverage.

I 100% agree the Open Sky system is not proven anywhere yet. I laso beleive public safety is not the place to be a proving ground. Life, safety and serving the public is of most importance, and should not be jeopardized by an unproven system. Not to say what any of us currently have could, or in some instances, crash and burn.

I apologize for not diggin deeper into the facts. next time, I listen with both ears open!!

How did you all survive on 33.70 with all the traffic??

PB
talviar
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:09 am
Location: Uniontown, PA

Post by talviar »

PB,

First, I understand. That statement coming from a New Salem FF (ex or current doesn't matter) surprises me as their district is pretty much HT coverage on the belt without trouble. . .

The offer always stands I will be more than happy to meet with someone and drive around our county with HT and Mobile on 800 to verify coverages. . . .

on the note of 33.70. . . . the best answer is we didn't. . . a lot of time in my area, we would leave someone at the base. Talk to the base and base could either relay on 33.70 to the old dispatch or via telephone if unsucessful. On several occasions, relayed thru Somerset or Westmoreland and even on occasion Cambria and Indiana to get comms thru to the dispatch center.

Opensky I am unsure of other than the Control Point at the 911 Center. Seems to work but unsure of how the TG's are set up and how the radio operates. (State installs radio, says you are required to use it to talk with us but doesn't tell us how to use the thing. . . . Lots of button pushing during the big storm in September. . . . to figure the darn thing out )

Later,
Tony
ER Manager
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:01 pm
Location: Allegan County, MI

MA Comm 800MHz System

Post by ER Manager »

Good afternoon,

I am new to the page today and new to the radio communication world, so a lot of the specific tech things are Greek to me, as yet.

But it sounds like you all would be interested to know that my county has gone to the full MA Comm 800MHz radio system for 911 police, EMS and Fire dispatch and Emerency/Homeland Security Operations. By next week, my ER will be on-line with the system for ambulance to ER patient reports and Medical Control Authority. It is our expectation that the only other hospital in the county will go 800 this year. This will be used for daily radio traffic, regional disaster management and hospital-to-hospital comm, with the various agencies/entities programmed for specific talkgroups to acheive separate, but globally accessable channels.

Our current testing is showing a >97% coverage "at the bedside" meaning in a house or building. We are reasonably impressed as Allegan COunty is far from flat. This has been acheived by the creation of 7 multichannel trunking towers and 2 two channel booster towers for the fringe. (I'm not sure if I have teh terminology right.) M/A-Comm has garunteed coveraged. Police and EMS will be using the M/A-Comm P7150 and the ER will have an M-803 "mobile" desk consolette.

Everyone from County Administration to street medic and cop are fairly happy with the performance so far. The police have been fully live for 1 month. EMS's go live date is next week.

The major drawback is that M/A-Comm is proprietary and not APCO25 compliant. Therefore, we have NO direct communication with Michigan State Disaster/Bioterrorism Management. Those links are provided by patches in the 911 Operations Center.

Tim Hall, RN, BSN
Manager of Allegan General Hospital's ER
Allegan County, Michigan.
Holeinone
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:55 pm

Post by Holeinone »

Does anyone know how much the radios are listed for?????
User avatar
Pj
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:56 am
Location: Land of the western tornadoes

Post by Pj »

The full blown OpenSky radio's aren't that much (realitively)..something like 1500-3000 contract pricing for mobiles, depending on model. However, you can ONLY buy them direct from MA/COM (no dealers) and only thru the contract if so authorized.
From the Federal Signal Price Book:
"Warning: Sirens and Speakers may produce LOUD sounds necessary to request the right-of-way."

Really...You think?
Holeinone
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:55 pm

Post by Holeinone »

What is the P-800 and P-801 going for????
PhaseLockedLunatic
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:55 am
Location: Idaho

Post by PhaseLockedLunatic »

Just to clarify for ER Manager:

M/A-Com does offer P25 products (M7100 mobiles, P7100 and P5100 portables, MASTR III base/repeater). It's not that M/A-Com isn't P25 compliant, it's that your agency purchased their OpenSky system which is not P25. It's all about the choice.

I'm curious, do your ambulances still have VHF radios in them as well? You still have 155.340 and 155.280, at least for interoperability?
Ghostwriter
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:51 pm

M/A-com's OpenSky TDMA Digital Trunking Network

Post by Ghostwriter »

You Guys crack me up :D

This M/A-com OpenSky TDMA 800 MHz 25 kHz RF Channel Spacing Digital Trunking Radio Network with AMBE Encryption is nothing more than a modified /\/\ iDEN Digital Radio Network that was sold to NEXTEL 10 to 12 years ago!

And your jumping up and down about the digital noise the NEXTEL system produces and rebanding the 800 MHz Frequencies. I wonder how M/A-com's OpenSky Network System will sound to adjacent Narrow Band RF Channels? Maybe just as noisey!

There are some differences that I can see. First and foremost being the use of the 25 kHz RF Channels, as M/A-com with their infinite wisdom are only dividing the RF Channel into to independent 12.5 kHz signal bandwidths carrying transports, one to carry Data and second to carry Voice Traffic not being Frequency Efficient the way I view this digital technology system but it's a trade-off feature..

I've read and reread the M/A-com OpenSky Web Page:

http://www.opensky.com/about.asp

And I can not find a single item in their document that states anything about Telephone Inconnect Calls to the outside world. I suppose that option has gone away as if Public Safety Personnel do not ever need it anymore.

What I do like is the feature of Analog to Digital migration if you are already are using a 800 MHz Trunking Network. Purchase all of the new Infrastructure Equipment first and then the Digital Subscribers units as the funds become available. I would need to believe that this M/A-com system is using Linear FM Technology to be compatible with older Analog FM (Class C) Trunking RF Signals.

/\/\'s iDEN Digital RF Signaling uses Linear AM (Class B) with a 16 Bit QAM Signaling within the 25 kHz RF Channel and is not backwards compatible with the older Analog FM Technology. The "Over-The-Air" transport is /\/\ VSELP between the Enhanced Base Transceiver Stations (EBTS) and the Subscribers units. Depending on how the Dispatch or Direct Connect Voice Traffic was assigned to RF Channels, it uses only 2 TS and if the RF Channel was handling the Telephone Interconnect Calls, there were 3 TS assigned. The RF Channels could be set up as 6:1 or 4:1 depending on what NEXTEL wanted. All of the Base Site Controllers (BSC were routed through T1 DACCs and then out to the individual EBTS Cell Tower Sites. NEXTELs equipment is already set up to accept Cipher but the RF TDMA is fairly secure in itself because of the Time Division Multiple Access and coupled with the Time Slots.

M/A-com's AMBE Encryption is a low level format compaired to DVP, DES or AES-256 but when used with TDMA and TS, it's probably adequate for Secure Technology. I believe that the Amateur Radio Community is using the AMBE for ICOMs D*Star and AOR Digital SSB Formats. M/A-com's web page does not provide the "Over-The-Air' signaling transport and AMBE is not compatible with IMBE.

QUOTING: PhasedlockedLunatic:

M/A-Com does offer P25 products (M7100 mobiles, P7100 and P5100 portables, MASTR III base/repeater). It's not that M/A-Com isn't P25 compliant, it's that your agency purchased their OpenSky system which is not P25. It's all about the choice.
User avatar
Pj
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:56 am
Location: Land of the western tornadoes

Post by Pj »

Talk about riviving a post...


Anyways...

Opensky is NOT like iDEN in many ways. Concepts are similar to a point.
iDEN uses the VSLEP digital meathod. OpenSky does not.

AMBE is NOT encyption. Its an improvement over IMBE from the samples that I have listened to. MA/COM does offer real encyption as well. But since scanner out there cannot, and most likely will not for any time decode the control channel and trunking information (never mind AMBE anyways), its not a big deal.

You need to read up on some stuff dude.
From the Federal Signal Price Book:
"Warning: Sirens and Speakers may produce LOUD sounds necessary to request the right-of-way."

Really...You think?
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